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Injy
Joined: Jul 13, 2002
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Re: very urgent and important
July 25, 2005 - 10:18 AM
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Abdel Rahman,
I will be quoting you to reply on:
"...is it imposible that no body even Hamas reply on them ??"
..."gihad" isnot to kill people blindly but lets listen to abou bacr elsedik ordering his army he said " dont kill an old man, dont kill achild, dont enter the places of warship, dont burn a tree ...ect."
So, according to your own citation up there, what they are doing is not "Gihad".
P.S. I did not mean to speak for or against Hamas, I am just pinpointing something for you, to watch out during the conference, do not give the person you are arguing with a clue to catch some unwell-planned reply 
I am still waiting at the other discussion for the History Enlightenment 
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abdelrahman
Joined: Jul 19, 2005
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Re: very urgent and important
July 26, 2005 - 02:57 AM
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hi nousha :
1- you saied tha you want peace so do i, but i think that the peace without power to protect it is nothing it go to surrender and simply as you talked about the religoin you have no chose from it its like take it or leave it .
قال تعالى " وما كان لمؤمن ولا مؤمنة إذا قضى الله ورسوله أمرا أن يكون لهم الخيرة من أمرهم" وأنت التي اخترت الحديث عن الدين
so you cant say lets repeet the says of the prophet which encourage peace and let the ones that encourage the jihad.
and i saied to you that any muslim is ordered to try -in any way - to acheave independance to any terrotiry which has been ruled with islam that is the what (ibn taimia and ibn elkaiem and elkaradawy and almost all the muslims) agreed upon.
2- i dont analyze the openions -على هوايا- but i think that any one say any word he will be responsible of it . i dont play the words but i catch it .if you saied something i didnt accept i -with all respect - has the right to say my openion in it so if a word is said any one should think of its meaning not to say i didnt mean it.
3-about the phalastinan state ,why do you say that its not like egypt and lebanon they all were oqupied by the romans then they opened in the islamic era in the reign of omar ibn elkhatab then they were oqupied by _al 7amlat elsalibia_ then they were all agreed to be oqupied by the new imberailism by saies biko agreement in 1916.
then they are the same .that was the general basic events of that region in breef.
3- its strange to say that there was never independent state its not important to have independant state but its important to have such state ...in this logic you can say that the israili people who was nothing from some decades has more right in phalastine than the phalastini people who lived in it millions of years .
although to know that phalastine is an arabian land you should know that _alkan3anion_ were the first people moved to phalastine from the arabian in 3-4 thousand year b.c and they established there huge civilized country lasted for
two and half thousand year then the _3abranion came and dawod ruled for no more 80 years and they didnt ever mixed with the nationals.
after that the _fors _ then the roman oqupied them and then there was the islamic opening for it .
so the phalastin is arabian and islamic country the jiwish has no right in it but if they want to still there in peace they must be under our controll becouse its our country not them,
4-you are talking about whats happening now and i am talking about what should be and i agree with you that it need very hard work and we 'll do it -allah willing-
5-about the resistance the only thing we disagree upon is the definition of the innocent people and i said my point of veiw in that topic before so i dont want to repeet it.
thanks.
abdelrahman
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Sabrine Assem
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
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Re: very urgent and important
July 26, 2005 - 06:11 AM
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well, no prob abdel rahman - u got ur opinion and i got mine - we won't change our views so let's just end it here 3ashan i'm tired and i guess some things were said which shouldn't have been said (i'm terribly sorry 4 that) - surely we'll go nowhere if we continued
anyway no matter wht: الاختلاف في الرأي لا يفسد للود قضية and wht i'm gonna do now is studying more abt history (including the history abt palestine & israel) though history books r tricky, u'd never know the whole truth c u all 2morrow
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Moustafa Mohamed Hussein
Joined: Aug 8, 2002
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Re: very urgent and important
July 26, 2005 - 06:18 AM
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Dear All,
As much as I am happy with your activity in the discussion board as much I am sad that this thread has moved to be a personal attacks thread.
Abd El-Rahamn, you have exceeded the limits and the ethics of discussions, your personal opinion is still personal and you shouldn’t think that others must follow it.
Don't go on tackling others' opinions, this is a place to discuss and also make sure that you read the whole post of the other members and make sure you understand it well before replying.
I was about to take my decision to close this thread and stop adding anymore posts to it but I found out that wouldn't be the right decision because the main aim of the online discussions is to give the chance to the delegates to have full freedom in debates.
But things have change and moved beyond the main aim of the discussions and debates.
I hate saying, but my post here is a warning to you Abd El-Rahman and to others also for the future posting.
One more thing for all of you, you are free here to post in any language you want BUT your post should be clear which means that if you are not strong in writing in English then post in Arabic and if you are not strong in Arabic then post in English, the most importand thing is to be CLEAR to others so as to avoid misunderstanding.
Again, I ask all of you to read these guidelines for discussions and do your best to follow them: http://www.takingitglobal.org/discuss/guidelines.html and in Arabic also http://ar.takingitglobal.org/discuss/guidelines.html
Thanks.
Moustafa Hussein
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Sabrine Assem
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
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Re: very urgent and important
July 26, 2005 - 08:48 AM
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i'm sorry abdel rahman if u thought that i offended "my religion" and "the palestinean cause" but let me tell u this:
1 - if u read wht i wrote carefully and i guess u did u would find out that all i'm after is PEACE that's the first and most important thing - i'm saying to forget a little bit abt the things that make our hatred to the jews grow more and grow instead of working hard on achieving peace - لماذا لا نروج للأحاديث الدينية الشريفة الداعية إلى السلام وكذلك نلقي الضوء بصورة أكبر على الآيات الكريمة الداعية إليه "وما أكثرها" بدلاً من أن يكون كل تركيزناً منصباً على إعلاء راية الكراهية والحرب في الأيام السودا اللي احنا كعرب ومسلمين عايشينها - and anyway if eventually Allah gives us victory that would be a bless from Him but we shouldn't depend on that now bec we're away of talking abt achieving a victory (we need to work very hard first and then talk - that's wht i'm saying in the other discussion) - so u c i didn't offend anyone and surely i didn't offend the prophet but u "as always" in all our discussions tend to analyze my opinions على هواك and u like to play with words and make me look as if i'm against religion, arabs...etc which i'm surely not bec i belong to the same religion of urs and i'm also an arab - u should always differentiate between the reality which we have to deal with and ur own beliefs and that's wht i do - i try to see the whole picture (my own beliefs + the other's beliefs) and then think neutrally abt wht should be done without being influenced by my beliefs
2 - u say now that u respect the jewish religion but how come: u said before that it's a FAKE religion beside many other offences - anyway it's good now to say u got no hard feelings against jews only against zionists
3 - there was never an independant (be carefull i'm saying independant not under islamic state) Palestine state throughout the whole history (pls tell me if i'm wrong)and so u cannot say that it was like lebanon or egypt - bec before israel there was england and before that الامبراطورية العثمانية and before them that it was ولاية اسلامية and before that there were the romans and before that there was دولة يهودية وهي دولة داوود وسليمان - i'm not pretty sure abt the order bec i read the history of palestine a long long time ago but i guess those were the most important occupiers (hopefully the topic abt the history of palestine will enlighten us more) anyway please please don't tell me there was a state and then israel came and took it (once again be carefull i'm not defending israel - and i never did - i'm neutral concerning FACTS, pure facts)
4 - u're saying that it's a shame of me to say that israel بتتنازل and i'm sorry if that offended u or any arab but that wasn't my intention and it looks like as if u're quoting my words and not taking the whole message like i told u before - all i'm saying that this is what happens right now - israel is not strict abt everything like before - and i could feel real efforts made by everyone in order to have a palestine state - again i'm telling the reality NOW
5 - finally i like to say something v. important: i'm not against resistence, surely i'm not:
- i'm with resistence against the army
- i'm with peaceful resistence (through making the world aware of my cause and getting its support, through trying to making dialogue with peace-supporters on the other side and trying to make something together that make people want peace...etc)
wht i'm against is violent resistence against innocent people
6 - hope u got the message this time and please again DON'T TRY TO ANALYZE MY OPINIONS AND MAKE THEM LOOK AS IF THEY'RE AGAINST RELIGION OR THE ARAB NATION bec they're NOT
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Injy
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Really Serious Issue
July 26, 2005 - 10:22 AM
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Dear AIMUNERS Keen On Making A Difference,
Sorry to tell you that, but the way this discussion is going is incredibly lacking all elements of respecting THE OTHER ...
1- The Discussion is going so far off-point apart from its main subject of "The Reflection on Egyptian Ambassador's Killing".
2- It has lately turned out in twisting the other AIMUNERS words, maybe misinterpeting the words, and making a big fuss of it.
3- I have been following it quite keenly, and thanks to the refusal of not "Accepting the Other", it is ended up with people claiming that someone has insulted Islam, while the other is defending that he/she did not.
4- Not because you want to say something, or express your opinion, that you pick up a tiny whiny thing in the other post, make a big thing out of it, and then keep on repeating, sometimes contradicting, yourself.
5- No one in here is lecturing anyone. You have all the right to represent your view in:
- logical way - providing it with exmaples - listening to the other posts - respecting the other opinions - presenting yours.
But you do not have the right to:
- Attack the others - Twisting his/her words to make a story out of it.
Guys, truly that is too much contradicting about what the so many have been posting about achieving bigger goals, working for the better of our nations, and getting together. How would that happen while that is the kind of Dialogue we are having in here? And I really do not want to hear the big nice words that we all love our country, simply because if we are not, we would not have been in the AIMUN. So, do not mess the good work up.
I also think that those who would like to be positive, let me narrow my talk in here to TIG Discussions, why have not I seen any contribution on "Arab Scholars" and "Palestine History" discussions?? Although we have agreed that we lack a lot of information, and we are in dire need to know the base to know where we stand and where to go. So if you the AIMUNERS are not to take action-you the very well-selected students who are so committed to spend their vacation in attending sessions, learing, debating, doing homework and many more, so who then? And then also we should not be so optimistic about coming generation, knowing that they would also lack how to argue with no twisting of the words and no proven claims.
Really, guys, I do not wish to see that discussion closed by the TIG for exceeding a number of limits, because closing it means a real failure to establish a civilized balanced dialogue. And I am almost sure that you would not be, as much as myself, to witness that failure.
I would really be grateful if you read veryyyyy carefully one another post before going on and on with untrue assumptions.
Thanks ya Shabab, and I am sure that the amasing people I have been working with for quite a month, and have been tremendously helping me out on achieving beautiful things will not let the ongoing failure of communication,
So anyone to help with the other discussion threads? Do you think we can have a thread on Egypt History as well, or what?
See you tomorrow ya Shabab and best of luck with your presentation,
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abdelrahman
Joined: Jul 19, 2005
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Re: very urgent and important
July 29, 2005 - 10:52 AM
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hi mostafa:
i would like to say that you have the right to warn me but i also have the right to accept or to refuse such warning and be sure that i'll stope writing here at the moment any one ask me to do that i dont write here to hurt any body or to attack him personally and as nousha said الاختلاف في الرأي لا يفسد للود قضية .i just tried to show and elaborate my viewpoint not to impose it.
we are here to learn more to know each others better ;with all respect .
dear nousha:
i realy wanted to reply you before the last post of mostafa , but i beleive that both of us made reachness in such debates most of people will see that will know that all of us thinking defending his principals .i think that no one is always wrong and no one is always right no one is perfect. our veiw points express realy existing thoughts, we didnt make much of it so i want to say that iam sorry if i exeeded the limits as mostafa said but all should know that i intended just the good.
thanks alot.
abdelrahman
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